~ Where the Sun Will Never Set on Our liberty ~
Has anyone else posted this? If they have, I apologize for re-posting it again. There are multiple states petitioning the US government for secession on the government website. There are people petitioning the government to deport and revoke citizenship of any of us that sign the petitions.
New states are popping up each time I access the website. You can check them out here if you are interested.
Scalia: No to secession
You've got to love that Antonin Scalia answered a letter from a screenwriter asking for tips on a screenplay involving Maine seceding from the union:
I am afraid I cannot be of much help with your problem, principally because I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court. To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, "one Nation, indivisible.") Secondly, I find it difficult to envision who the parties to this lawsuit might be. Is the State suing the United States for a declaratory judgment? But the United States cannot be sued without its consent, and it has not consented to this sort of suit.
I am sure that poetic license can overcome all that — but you do not need legal advice for that. Good luck with your screenplay.
Constitutionally, the state have the right to secede! Just because Lincoln waged war and won doesn't make it unconstitutional. As for the Pledge of Allegiance - wait till you read the history it! I just looked it up and it really rattled me. I remembered who wrote it and where it was first published but NOT the rest of the info!
The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country.
In its original form it read:
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
In 1923, the words, "the Flag of the United States of America" were added. At this time it read:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy's daughter objected to this alteration. Today it reads:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
I am old enough to remember that!
Besides him being a socialist minister (whatever that means) I don't have a problem with saying the pledge of allegiance as it now stands.
Thanks for that information Molle. The states do have the right to secede, as you pointed out.
What I find disconcerting is that some who claim to be conservative, and stand for the constitution, are bent out of shape, if for some reason a state decides to exercise it's right to secede. Secession is not the threat. We already have a threat to our country as a whole, and it is called liberalism, progressive, socialist, but it's actually communism.
People that are afraid to stand up for what is right, regardless of whether it is comfortable or not, in my opinion are part of the problem, not the solution. We have tried to be reasonable and nice, which has not done a thing other than to have us called racist and terrorist.
We can set on our duffs and continue complaining that we are being disenfranchised of our representation, or we can try something new to get the attention of the dictator in charge. If that is the petition for secession, than so be it.
Molle, if you have the time, the link below is a very good documentary of what is happening to our country. It explains a lot of what has and is happening to us.The film is like Atlas Shrugged, only for real in our country today. It is scary, but it will answer a lot of questions that we have been asking.
AGENDA: Grinding America Down (Full Movie) FREE for a limited time.
I guess I will start out by saying that no state will secede. I am having a difficult time understanding the reasoning behind some of the responses here. It sounds like the George Bush response to a market crash: "I’ve abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system." I don't think there is anything conservative or patriotic about discussions as to destroying our republic because we do not like the direction it is heading.
The good news, I guess, is that if people are that unhappy, and feel that defeated they can secede on an individual level. It's called leaving the country and renouncing citizenship. Apparently several really rich folks have done that thinking that will protect their stuff/money.
Personally, I don't think anyone who is calling for secession remotely understands the gravity or ramifications to such actions if they were to actually happen. I am glad it won't happen. As I said in response to a previous post, it's a damn good thing our military doesn't behave this way.
Will our republic survive? I don't know. I just know I will be here with and for my country until her end or mine...whichever comes first. Believe that.
You are right Rahtrae. I cannot imagine that any state would actually carry out secession. For me, there is no confusion on why they are threatening secession. States have threatened secession before, so this is really nothing new.
I believe that it is their way to say "can you hear me now"! We have been ignored, and bashed in trying to sand up for our country. We have been dismissed as irrelevant. The status quo has not worked.
I am older than you are, and I am so shocked at the changes that I have seen in the past 30 ears. Changes that I never thought that I would see in my lifetime. People from my generation that are not liberal, have to be very scared at what we are seeing taking place with our government. I can hope that things work themselves out, but at this time, what I and so many others see does not look promising.
If we are not careful, there will be no republic.
Hell, I can't believe the things I have seen in the last 4 years, let alone the last 20. I never thought I would come to believe the things I know as fact over the last 4 years. It's as depressing as it is disturbing. I think our republic is on the knife's edge right now. I think the world rests on that same edge. If America falls, there will be no place to run to.
We just have to prepare as best we can for whatever comes. We need to hang together in the tough times ahead, or we will surely all hang separately. Freedom is at stake now. For all of her flaws, I love my country dearly. I know so many patriots do. Prepare for the worst. Fight for the best. Don't lose heart. You are not alone.
You are so right about our republic being on the edge Rahtrae! I am not so much depressed as I am frightened. I feel as though we have been catapulted into an alternate universe, there have been so many changes in just the past 4 years alone.
We all love our country Rah. If we didn't we wouldn't be so disturbed by what is happening here now. The following verses of Lee Greenwood's "God Bless The USA" says exactly how I feel about our country and my fellow patriots:
If tomorrow all the things were gone,
I'd worked for all my life.
And I had to start again,
with just my children and my wife/(husband).
I'd thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can't take that away.
And I'm proud to be an American,
where at least I know I'm free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.
Rah, my country started disappearing in the early 60's. It is gone now. I want it back. The people who live here by and large think we live in a democracy! Every democracy in history has failed.
I don't think these states want to secede - they want the Federal government to recognize the 10th Amendment! The Federal Government has ONLY 27 or 28 enumerated powers (depending on how you count) granted to them in the Constitution. LOOK AT WHAT THEY HAVE STOLEN FROM US!
They have NO right to FEDERAL LANDS except for 10 miles around DC, forts, arsenals, etc. Look at how much land they have stolen from the states and now hold us hostage on oil drilling!
My family never actively participated in politics but followed them closely. We discussed them at the dinner table, I went with my mother while she voted. I bragged because she was a poll watcher until she was in her late 70's. In those days, the media discussed the candidates records and their stand on issue - not polls. I remember Harry Truman - vaguely. I remember Eisenhower vividly!
Rah, I want my country back. I will be 69 in two months. My son will be 45 next month. He doesn't even know what country I am talking about and he is a lawyer! I go from deep despair for my grandchildren to intense rage at the apathetic public that let this happen!
Every idiot that voted for Pelosi and Reid has affected MY life and I resent it!
Blue Cross has just informed me that by 2014 my monthly insurance will cost my $2,000 a month because of ObamCare. That is $300 less my gross monthly pension!
Will the House simply not fund Obamacare? NO! But they could!
So, where is my country?
I am 59 years old Molle, and you are right about the country disappearing during the 60's. I to want to know where my country is, and I want it back.
I am glad others remember. Maybe, just maybe, as long we live, we can begin to bring it back.
I can't image the feds would ever let states secede from the union, not without some sort of civil war. But we are so interdependent now I'm not sure how that would be possible. There may be citizens that want to secede but states are so dependent on fed money I don't see it happening.